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What’s the latest in the hotel economy with the owner of 90 yr old Handley in Union Square and the importance of professional coaching in the business world.
Episode Transcript
Intro:
Welcome to the Practical Tax podcast, with tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. The Practical Tax podcast is brought to you by Moskowitz, LLP, a tax law firm.
Disclaimer:
The information contained in this podcast is based upon information available as of date of recording and will not be updated for changes in law regulation. Any information is not to be considered tax advice or legal advice and does not form an attorney/client relationship. Further, this podcast may be construed as attorney advertising. You should see professional consultation for your individual tax and legal situation.
Chip Franklin:
Welcome everybody to Practical Tax with tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. Steve, I want to ask you something before our first guess because it kind of ties in with our guest. As you traveled around the country, did you constantly go back to the same hotel when you were in a city? Was it like one you favored and you just stuck with it?
Steve Moskowitz:
Absolutely.
Chip Franklin:
What were the things that that drew you to that? Because I know that some hotels, they fight for business travel because that’s a great thing to have. Others can’t really compete in that area and some do both.
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, I hate to admit this, but my number one consideration was a good wifi. It’s really important.
Chip Franklin:
I get, yeah. That’s funny.
Steve Moskowitz:
I mean, for example, right now we’re doing a Zoom and all the business is being done through the internet now. The number one thing is I need a good wifi connection.
Chip Franklin:
You know what mine was, good pillows because I mean I’ve always had… I’ve played sports so many years and I’m feeling the pain now. I always wanted a hotel that had good firm pillows as opposed to the ones where they look like a sheep snuck in your room and it was on your bed. There was a lot of things and it’s funny, so I traveled forever and I would always pick the same hotels and price didn’t matter because I mean that was eight hours that I could just disappear before I had to do any kind of work and everything.
Steve Moskowitz:
Of course, you’re only paying for part of the room. The IRS is paying for the other part.
Chip Franklin:
Our first guest is the owner and this is a family-owned business here in San Francisco that has been in this family since 1928 and some incredible stories. Jon Handlery joins us here from the Handlery Hotel in San Francisco. Jon, welcome to Practical Tax with Steve Moskowitz. Hope you’re well.
Jon Handlery:
I’m doing well. I hear you Steve on the radio quite often giving tips. Thank you.
Steve Moskowitz:
Thanks very much. Hopefully you heard me doing my broadcasts with Chip.
Jon Handlery:
Yes.
Chip Franklin:
Both of you guys are great on the radio and both of you guys I think are smart to represent your brand, and that’s one thing that I’ve seen all these years in radio is that people want authenticity. They don’t need the guy that talks like this. What they want is they want to hear from the people who actually will be delivering the service or product that they have. Both of you guys represent yourselves real well. There’s some kissing up, but it’s true.
Steve Moskowitz:
Thanks Chip.
Jon Handlery:
Thank you very much.
Chip Franklin:
So Jon, let’s talk about, I mean obviously in and since 1928 coming up on a hundred years, not too far down the road-
Steve Moskowitz:
Jon wasn’t the one that opened the doors.
Chip Franklin:
No.
Jon Handlery:
No. My grandfather, then my dad, now me, and two of my kids now have followed me into the industry, so fourth generation.
Chip Franklin:
Let me ask you this, Jon, over the years obviously this pandemic had to be a difficult period to get through especially as I mentioned before with business travel down. How did you guys manage it to get through that? I know we’re still dealing with the aftereffects and the next few years we will be too, right?
Jon Handlery:
Yeah, we’re slowly coming back in San Francisco, which is positive. A lot of domestic visitors, people wanting to get out of the house and things of that nature. Conventions are obviously off because they usually book three, four years out. People that were looking at a convention say for ’23 in 2020, they weren’t going to book because we didn’t know where we were going on this. That’s been the challenge. The pandemic was totally different than at least anything I’ve ever experienced. I came back to work for my father in 1980 and I went through all the ups and downs with the downturn in the economy and things of that nature. You could adjust to that by watching your costs and maybe playing around with the rate to try to entice someone. In April 3rd of 2020, I ended up closing the hotel because we’d already been told two weeks earlier that you couldn’t travel. That just changed everything.
Steve Moskowitz:
One of the things that’s so tough about the hotel business is you can’t save up inventory to sell later. You can’t put that in a storeroom someplace. I’ll put this guest room in the storeroom and we’ll sell it-
Chip Franklin:
It’s like a restaurant Steve.
Steve Moskowitz:
Exactly. Once the night is over, the room’s gone. There’s nothing you do to make up for that.
Jon Handlery:
No, challenging. One of my children who I work with came to me and asked me about three months into it being close, “What would my dad have done?” I said, “I don’t know if he would’ve done anything different because if you’re told you cannot travel, there’s nothing I could have done.” I can cut costs the best I can, but I can’t have the hotel open. If you don’t have guests then you’re going to lose money but you’ll lose less.
Chip Franklin:
Well you guys open in the heart of the Great Depression in 1928, right? I mean coming up. It’s interesting to see this city and where it is because obviously this is something you share with the other hotel owners and I’m sure you guys talk and everybody’s trying to figure out the near future. I agree with you and I think Steve would agree, and probably sees it even more so being a numbers guy, that it is changing. We are growing but people don’t realize, as you said, hotels book a couple years out and their convention stuff and convention business is huge. I know that there are people though, and this is one of the things you market to and I love this, is that there’s so many people that live in the Bay Area and see if you live in the city that don’t come into the city, they say they’re from San Francisco but they can’t tell you the last time they were in San Francisco. That’s a big part of your marketing too, right?
Jon Handlery:
Yeah, it is. We’re on the radio to attract that market to try to get people to come to the city and just take a weekend off if nothing else or go see a Giants game or whatever the case may be. I think that’s why it’s been positive from a domestic standpoint and especially regionally where people who were locked up for whatever it was, a year plus, they do want to get out, they want to get away from their house. By letting them know that there’re a lot of things in San Francisco maybe they hadn’t seen.
Steve Moskowitz:
What’s nice if you stay in your hotel, you can walk to the restaurant, walk back and if somebody should decide to imbibe an adult beverage, they don’t have to worry about harming anybody.
Chip Franklin:
Right and from that location, you’re an Uber ride from Oracle or AT&T, I forget what they’re called now; the Presidio, the Wharf restaurants. When I was there staying at your place in… It’s funny, you know who is a huge fan of your place? She’s not here today. Liz Frame, who works with Steve, she loves it because she says she goes in there and she feels like she’s gone back in time. All the amenities are modern, but it has the feel of a hotel that is part of the city and it’s really hard to explain that to people who’ve never been in there. You both know what I’m talking about. You’ve been in hotels like that before. I mean, New York has a bunch of them. San Francisco not so much. When I came I stayed at a bunch of different hotels in the city. I’ve been in your hotel in San Diego. There’s a Handlery in what do they call that, Hotel Circle down there. This one was such a great experience because as Steve just mentioned it was so close to stuff.
I want to ask Steve, can I ask you a question about business travel? Every year like many people, I do a long form and I have a lot of travel expenses. Have you ever heard of an audit where they question your business travel and they say, “Well, did you go visit somebody? Did you have fun?”
Steve Moskowitz:
Oh, all the time. That’s actually one of the areas where the IRS is suspect. The first thing they do is they take a look. What was the primary purpose of the trip? Was it business? Also, one of the things they pay attention to is where did you go? If you went to a resort area that’s going to get… If you had a business trip or two weeks in Honolulu, that’s going to be scrutinized in and of itself a lot more than if you had it in Pittsburgh or Detroit.
Chip Franklin:
Interesting.
Steve Moskowitz:
Then it’s a whole bunch of things and you have to show the primary purpose is for business. On the other hand, suppose you were there for two weeks and you say you were doing business from Monday through Friday and then you took the weekend off. Can you still deduct the time when you’re off Saturday and Sunday? The answer is yes if you show that it wouldn’t be practical to fly back to your home, it would make no sense for you to fly from San Francisco to New York on Saturday and then fly back Sunday. So you say, “Well, okay, it makes sense that I can go ahead and deduct my Saturday and Sunday expenses even though I wasn’t doing business then.”
Chip Franklin:
Jon, on a totally unrelated question, I got to ask you, a friend of mine owns a hotel in New Orleans, not big has I think 27 rooms. I was talking to him about the strangest group you ever had come in on a business. At the time he had a hotel that had 132 rooms and he had a mime convention come in and they filled every room and the entire hotel was full of mimes. What are some of the stranger groups you’ve had?
Steve Moskowitz:
How’d they call for room service Chip?
Jon Handlery:
Nicely done.
Chip Franklin:
I don’t know. That’d be funny. That was a bad mime. Does something jump to mind? It doesn’t have to be that, just something unusual or does anything jump to mind?
Jon Handlery:
Not so much here in San Francisco, but I happened to be down at our property in San Diego when Comic Con was there. I was walking through our lobby and everyone’s dressed like Star Trek or it was like Klingons. I’m like, this is different, never [inaudible 00:10:51] get in my entire life. They were all into it. I went oh, okay. That’s about the wildest thing I think I’ve ever seen.
Chip Franklin:
Do you get a sense moving forward that obviously the city has some problems that the national media loves to focus on, although I don’t think they’re anywhere near as bad as they say. I mean obviously shoplifting and homeless, but to me it seems like that the one great thing about San Francisco is we don’t try to solve the problems by just brushing it away. We try to get to the core of it and try to figure it out, at least on a good day that’s who we are. When you talk to other businesses around you and other hotel owners, do you get a sense we’re getting a hold in this and moving forward?
Jon Handlery:
I think we are. 2020 when everything shut down and if you were in Union Square, I mean it was literally like, “My God, am I the only person in this city?” Unfortunately that brought an even more intense group of people we didn’t want. I guess it’s good news and bad news is when the famous, we refer to it as the Louis Vuitton video, when all the element came in and hit a bunch of high end retail stores, that seemed to wake up the city I think primarily because it got national as well as international press. That was the bad news. The good news is the city now has brought back what I would call the old time beat cop, which is really all I think the businesses want is just to see the regular gentleman you used to see back in the seventies and eighties walking by, everything, anything I need to know about. That is refreshing.
Steve Moskowitz:
I think that’s great. That’s like the old time New York beat cop, I mean, nothing better.
Jon Handlery:
Nothing better.
Chip Franklin:
I was in lower Pacific Heights and I’m walking down the street and a homeless man yelled to me, he goes, “Hey mister!”. I turned around, he goes, “You dropped your wallet.” I had a backpack. It had fallen out of my wallet. I had about $200 in cash sitting on a money clip. I tried to give him $20. He wouldn’t take it. I’m not going to say that’s going to be your every experience, but it gave me, I’m a big believer in symbolic metaphors, and that was the last time I was there. I think that there’s something that I’ll always treasure about San Francisco and the quality of your service in your hotel.
Steve Moskowitz:
San Francisco is a great place Chip, so is San Diego. I love San Francisco. As you know, I’m a New York City transplant, but I’ve been here for a long time.
Chip Franklin:
Well I think there’s more San Francisco in you now than New York City after all these years.
Steve Moskowitz:
Clearly.
Chip Franklin:
Jon, thank you so much my friend. Please come back again and look forward to seeing you real soon.
Jon Handlery:
Thank you very much Steve.
Steve Moskowitz:
My pleasure. I’ll look forward to seeing you in your hotel.
Jon Handlery:
Take care.
Chip Franklin:
Great property, great guy. The Handlery Hotel in Union Square. Steve, I get the emails, I don’t know why you don’t get them, but I get emails from people to ask questions of you. One is, I’m not going to say the person’s name, but it’s a fairly popular musician who knows that we do this show and had a question about receipts. Now before I ask you the question-
Steve Moskowitz:
Keep them all forever.
Chip Franklin:
Okay. All right. I was audited in 1988 and I was a performer at the time. I brought in receipts and a lot of them had faded. You couldn’t really read them anymore. The auditor seemed to trust me when I put down the amounts because I’d made the actual effort to keep these receipts. My question for you is when you’re filing a long form, are the receipts enough or do you need to keep a diary to explain each one? I mean, because many times in an audit you’re a smart guy, you wouldn’t let a person come in the audit, you would keep them out. Is a business diary a smart thing to have?
Steve Moskowitz:
In a lot of areas it’s absolutely essential because the IRS looks for a lot of things. First, they look for the receipt, they look for the payment of the receipt, and they oftentimes are asking for the diary as well. You have to record things. They want a lot of information. Bottom line is defense is very different than planning. As far as planning, absolutely keep a diary of all your time. Keep every receipt you have. I wasn’t kidding about how long to keep them, because if you look in the IRS instruction booklet, it tells you something different. It says generally you only have to keep your receipts for the time of statute limitations and generally that’s three years. What they don’t tell you is the three years is three years from the date you filed the return. If 10 years later they say you didn’t file the return, they’re going to allege that, “Hey, where’s your receipts?” I have done plenty of cases like that where years later the government says, “Hey, you didn’t file, prove it.”
Chip Franklin:
If they see a pattern, they can start going backwards to see if that pattern goes, how far it goes back?
Steve Moskowitz:
Well sure. Also the statute of limitations doesn’t run until you file the return, there are all kinds of things.
Chip Franklin:
The last part of this question here, and I’m reading it as I speak, was about, oh, so this particular performer, it’s a woman, she says, “Oftentimes I’ll lose the receipt, but I keep my credit cards receipt and I have a diary so I can show in the credit card receipt what I spent it for and it’s in my diary.” Will that suffice in most cases.
Steve Moskowitz:
Lawyers answer, for planning absolutely get the receipt. The credit card only shows so much. Suppose for example, I show the IRS I have a receipt from Costco for a hundred bucks and I say, “Oh, that was legal pads that I bought.”
Chip Franklin:
Yeah, right.
Steve Moskowitz:
The IRS says, “Well, how do I know you’re going to buy groceries?”
Chip Franklin:
Right, right. Good stuff. Okay, that’s it. Ask a tax attorney. You can find all these by going to moskowitzlllp.com. Time now for our next guest. This is to me there’re all types of different consultants. You’re a consultant in a way, right? You give practical advice based on numbers.
Steve Moskowitz:
Numbers in tax.
Chip Franklin:
I think that one of the things that we’ve really seen in the last few years is consulting for people in their life and the different aspects of their life. Not just how personal goes into business and business goes into personal. Especially if you have your own business or maybe you have a W2 and you have another business, being able to handle all. That to me is pretty important and our second guest on the show today, you can find her at truthcoach.com. Kelly Accetta is nice enough to join us here on Practical Tax with Steve. Moskowitz.
Steve Moskowitz:
Hi Kelly.
Chip Franklin:
Hi Kelly.
Kelly Accetta:
Hello gentlemen. Thank you for having me.
Steve Moskowitz:
It’s a pleasure.
Chip Franklin:
First of all, this is kind of a new phenomena coaching and coaching people through life. I think in the beginning there probably was some resistance-
Steve Moskowitz:
Is it really Chip? I mean isn’t all through history, people have given advice to other people, doesn’t it go back thousands of years?
Chip Franklin:
Without a doubt. No, I know, but I didn’t think thousands of years people have been listening to it.
Steve Moskowitz:
Ask parents about their kids.
Chip Franklin:
Exactly. You work in probably the most important field in business, and I would say in our lives too, which is communication. Well, no, but that’s true. I mean, you know this too Steve, right? Everybody thinks taxes are zeros and ones, but there’s a lot of gray area in there too about how to apply a business acumen, tax acumen to a good life.
Steve Moskowitz:
Look how often the courts split and that’s all courts from United States Supreme Court to the tax court having decisions saying yes in one area of the country, no in another area of the country there. I mean, what is it? Law is judges interpreting what the Congress meant and they come up with all kinds of stuff.
Chip Franklin:
Well, Kelly, your website is called truthcoach.com. From that, can I infer that if a friend of yours says, “Do these pants make my butt look big?” you’re going to say yes?
Steve Moskowitz:
Yes but not without permission.
Chip Franklin:
Tell me what’s the biggest impediment today to good communication and business?
Kelly Accetta:
Well, I think unfortunately we’ve come to a place in our society where we’re just so fragile. In my book, How to Diffuse the Landmines we Plant in our Lives, one of my chapters is on offendability as a landmine. We can see it in the cancel culture that’s going on. We can see it with the last presidential race where friendships were ruined, lots of dinners, Thanksgiving and Christmas were ruined. Communication unfortunately is not in a healthy place. We used to be able to debate with one another and do so with respect and with honor. If we didn’t agree, it wasn’t I didn’t want to throw you off a building or make sure that you paid for it. It’s really unfortunate where communication has gone.
That’s another thing that I teach when I work with corporations is we have to teach people how to take ownership of what triggers them. I don’t know if a joke I might say to you, there could be history with you that’s a trigger, and you respond negatively. I can’t know that. I can’t know the triggers for everyone in my organization or everyone on my team. I teach companies and I teach their employees how we need to take ownership of our own triggers and be forthright with people and say, “Hey, you might not realize this, but the way you said that, or what you said really didn’t sit well with me and got a lot of history. It’s a trigger. It’s my own thing but please don’t say that again.” We have to be able to do that. We can’t lay it at someone else’s feet to know everything that triggers us.
Steve Moskowitz:
I have a comment on that, Kelly. Amen. The only thing I would say about the thrown off the roof is but torture you first and then throw you off.
Kelly Accetta:
There you go.
Steve Moskowitz:
Actually, I have some clients that I think could benefit from your counsel. Chip, if you send me the contact information, possibly I could refer somebody to you.
Chip Franklin:
By the way, we do always have the content for information for all of our guests and us at the end of every show when you see the video it. It’s interesting, I started out writing opinion pieces for nonprofits and occasionally I would get asked to write a speech and somebody would ask me, “Can you write a joke for the speech?” I said, “Well, here’s my rule is that I’ll write a joke but you have to be the butt of your own joke.” Self deprecation is the best way to ingratiate yourself with people, especially a person of authority or an important figure. There’s a way to do it. You don’t want to affect your credibility, but you can make fun of the fact that… I had a guy, he said, “I run marathons all downhill though.” Or I’m a bad golfer, I’m the worst house husband in the world, but I’m trying to get better. You tell a story and people have a sense, they feel that okay, this person’s like me.
To me, communication, when I look and I listen to people like Warren Buffet talk about his secretary. He talks about her in a warm and ingratiating way that makes you think, I want to work for this guy and down the line I want to work for the people that work for this guy. How can so many businesses and government officials miss these cues?
Kelly Accetta:
Well, first and foremost, it’s the oldest problem since we opened our mouths is unfortunately, most of us are horrible listeners. That’s true. Most of us take turns talking at one another. Most of the time when someone is talking to us, we’re thinking about what we’re going to say as opposed to really listening and asking questions to make sure we understand. There’s so many times, oftentimes when I’m in a conversation and someone that I’m speaking with thinks they know what I’m going to say, so they cut me off and they just go on a tangent and it’s two or three minutes later before I can finally get word in edgewise and say, “That’s not what I was going to say.” Listening is such a crucial, crucial part of communication.
Also when you’re talking from a company standpoint or a corporate standpoint, you gentlemen deal with a lot of businesses. One of the things, a pitfall that I have seen just get worse with every year that passes is that companies speak in acronyms and it’s really easy to shorten things, create acronyms, and your internal language becomes all acronyms. That is awful in two ways. First of all, when you have a new hire, it takes a while for them to figure out what the heck people are talking about because everyone is talking about the GPS going to the HCE and the NCR has to be perfect for the PSA. It is mind boggling when I’ll go into companies and they’re having issues with departments. I’ll look at a few emails and I’ll say, “Well, does this department have any idea what any of these acronyms mean or which ones are a priority?” Acronyms are also something. Then what happens is it bleeds into, first of all, interdepartmentally.
Chip Franklin:
Can I jump in there real quick? Is it up to the person when they’re confused to just ask questions? I don’t know what that means. Can you help me out? Right.
Kelly Accetta:
Yes it is. In the regard of then it transfers, it bleeds into the marketing, it bleeds into campaigns, it bleeds into how companies go about positioning themselves. I can’t tell you how many… I know I’m weird, but I love watching commercials because I’m in communication. I love watching commercials to see how companies communicate. I can’t tell you how often I’ve caught them actually using acronyms in their commercials. I don’t know what the heck they’re saying.
Chip Franklin:
Steve, can I ask you a question?
Steve Moskowitz:
You can, but first I have some more amens for Kelly because I listen to people all day as part of an attorney. Also I speak to people, but boy, people’s attention spans have really shortened. The problem is, and I even say to clients, good communication is so vitally important in every relationship. Not just client and lawyer relationship, but personal relationships and in a real type of relationship. That has sorely… Not to mention, people are afraid to talk to each other because you say God knows what, and then, “How dare you? Oh, and I’m going to sue you over that.” It’s incredible.
What’s happened is people cut down what they say because they say, “Well, all right, maybe if I offend, I just won’t say anything.” That hurts the business. That hurts the relationship because then some vital communication or maybe there’s something that needs to be fixed. It’s sort of like, if somebody would tell me that, I would take it as a favor. If somebody would say to me, “Steve, the shirt you’re wearing has a big spaghetti stain on it.” I would really be grateful that you didn’t let me go out and talk to all my clients-
Chip Franklin:
Or something hanging in your nose.
Steve Moskowitz:
People are afraid to say anything. I say, “Well, thank you for helping me, thank you for caring enough about me” to say, look, there’s something that maybe I could improve myself because if you don’t say it to my face, everybody else is going to say it to my back. That could really hurt what I’m going to do in business. You’re really doing the person a favor, even if it’s something is in your tooth. Well, you know what? It’s better to fix it.
Chip Franklin:
Steve, how do you do that though? How do you deal with somebody’s in a tax situation and you have to explain complicated… I mean it’s what an 8,000 page tax code? How do you dumb that down?
Steve Moskowitz:
If you look at the abridged version.
Chip Franklin:
Right. Yeah. Dumbed down is probably the wrong word. How do you create a dialogue with somebody so they feel like they’re part of the process and they can understand it?
Steve Moskowitz:
I’ve been very blessed because I’ve spoken so much in my career and also at the beginning of my career I was a professor and as you know, a TV and radio legal analyst. Basically what I have to do is when I speak to somebody to the best of my ability I try to communicate in a meaningful way. It’s like if a physician is speaking to another physician about a medical condition, he or she is going to use terms way differently than if they’re speaking to me. Basically what I try to do is just speak to somebody the way I would appreciate if they speak to me.
Chip Franklin:
Kelly, as a woman in this field and there’s still many glass ceilings and you speak before corporations, probably predominantly men in many cases; how do you break through some of that prejudice with language, with tone? I guess there’s probably a lot of subtleties that we’re not even aware of that we’re probably doing now that you see. How do you break that and is this a better time than it was maybe 50 years ago for women? I’m hoping the answer is yes.
Kelly Accetta:
It is and isn’t. One thing that’s starting to happen is that companies are recognizing that… 45% of most companies now are female. There’s a lot of companies that are trying to bring up and develop and groom leaders that are female because I always explain it as a yin and yang. Men are great at certain aspects and women are great at other aspects. When you can find a company that has a solid leadership team that is a mix of ethnicities and of genders, you are going to have so much meat when you have a conversation. The problem is a lot of times, and they keep doing studies and keep doing studies, you can see these studies every year they come out with different studies of how…
I know Google was having an issue about eight years ago. They really went after trying to get women into leadership roles and all the sciences in a fabulous book called, That’s What She Said. They did all this research and they showed that they would submit two resumes, exact resumes, and they would just change the name. One had a female name, one had a male name. The male name was chosen 80% of the time over the female name. Then they would go one step further and they would submit code. It was like, here solve this problem, show how you solve this problem and that will be a part of whether or not you’re going to hire this person. They did the same thing and they did blindly they submitted the code and women’s code was chosen much higher. I believe it was 65% of the time, 70% of the time over the men. Then when submitted with their names on it, female names, they were not.
Steve Moskowitz:
Kelly, one of the things I’d mention to the companies is consider the consumers. I think women make up more consumers than men. If I was the owner of that company, I would be really, really concerned is what is of interest to my potential customer or client. Possibly a woman knows what a woman might find attractive in any product more than a guy would, I don’t know.
Kelly Accetta:
It’s actually, I believe we are 80% of the financial decisions of the home are on the woman’s shoulder.
Chip Franklin:
99 in my home.
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, I find that a lot when I talk with clients, when if I don’t talk to the couple together, the husband will say, “I’ve got to ask my wife.”
Chip Franklin:
Wow. I tell this all the time. I was raised by five women, single mom and four older sisters. I learned things that I could never learn from men about and subtle things too. That was the best part. Truthcoach.com, What’s the book again?
Kelly Accetta:
How to Diffuse the Landmines We Plant In Our Lives.
Chip Franklin:
All right. You can find that at truthcoach.com, right?
Kelly Accetta:
And Amazon, yes.
Chip Franklin:
All right, Amazon, of course. Right. Kelly, will you come back please?
Kelly Accetta:
I would love to.
Steve Moskowitz:
A lot of great stuff Kelly. Thanks.
Kelly Accetta:
Thanks for having me.
Chip Franklin:
Thank you so much. Again, that’s Kelly Accetta, truthcoach.com. That’s another edition of Practical Tax with Steve Moskowitz. I’m Chip Franklin. You guys be well until next time.
Outro:
Thanks for joining us on the Practical Tax podcast with tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. To hear more and view more podcasts, go to moskowitzllp.com/practicaltax.