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On this episode, we speak with expert on salaries and discuss how small businesses can compete for employees by offering more than just money. Also, an experienced CEO and coach to Fortune 500 companies joins us and discusses guiding individuals and teams to success.
Episode Transcript
Intro:
Welcome to the Practical Tax podcast, with tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. The Practical Tax podcast is brought to you by Moskowitz, LLP, a tax law firm.
Disclaimer:
The information contained in this podcast is based upon information available as of date of recording and will not be updated for changes in law regulation. Any information is not to be considered tax advice or legal advice and does not form an attorney/client relationship. Further, this podcast may be construed as attorney advertising. You should see professional consultation for your individual tax and legal situation.
Chip Franklin:
All right, welcome to another edition of Practical Tax with Tax Attorney Steve Moskowitz. Steve, this is funny. I have a good friend of mine I do a podcast for. He’s a former major leaguer and he hates the idea of everybody knowing the salaries that major leaguers make. In fact, there’s one story about this kid, Lindor, who now plays for the Mets from Cleveland. And he wanted to make 340 million guaranteed, because it was a million more than another major leaguer he didn’t like. And we were just talking about-
Steve Moskowitz:
Who could live on 339?
Chip Franklin:
I know. But in an office place, having salaries and talking about salaries around other people, it doesn’t make for a very good, I mean, I’m sure you wouldn’t want people going around and comparing salaries in the office.
Steve Moskowitz:
It’s something that’s very personal. And there’s all different motivations and people do different things and do different work. And sometimes somebody may have a difference of opinion as to what their work is worth as opposed to a coworker, as opposed to the company. And again, we were talking about the divorce area. This is a volatile area.
Chip Franklin:
It’s very volatile. Well, that brings us to our next guest. And Andi Monet, she’s an expert in this area. And she’s been talking about salaries and she joins us here on Practical Tax. Andi, hi. Thanks for being here.
Andi Monet:
Thank you. Happy whatever day of the week it is today, gentlemen.
Steve Moskowitz:
It’s Friday.
Andi Monet:
Friday.
Chip Franklin:
It’s always Friday if you have the right attitude. That’s my thought. I wanted to talk to you and Steve and I wanted to can kind of go down the road of salaries as it applies to small businesses trying to recruit top employees and top administrators to come and work for them. It’s kind of like I talked about with the sports. In baseball, you have the New York Yankees, the Boston Red Sox and the Los Angeles Dodgers. And since there’s no real cap, they can get the best players. So the other teams have to battle and show a different reason. What are some of the alternative things that small businesses can do to attract people when they can’t match these humongous salaries?
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, first thing I would think of is, what state are you located in? Because if you’re in a non-tax state, that can save you a lot of money. California, you’re giving away 13.3% of your income, where if you’re in Texas, or Florida, or State of Washington, or Nevada, or a number of other places, then the answer is your state income tax is in that state, zero.
Andi Monet:
And that’s a really good point, because I lived in California. I was born in California, but I also lived there. But I live in Texas now. And the reason we moved, not me, but actually my ex-husband, who’s my best friend, speaking of divorce, we do everything together still.
Chip Franklin:
That’s definitely not the norm.
Andi Monet:
It’s very unusual, but there’s a whole reason for that and I value him. But we moved to Texas.
Steve Moskowitz:
That would make a great podcast, Chip.
Andi Monet:
So many people have asked me to actually write a book about it. It’s really funny.
Steve Moskowitz:
The good thing about that is if you have children, that is such a benefit to the children.
Andi Monet:
We do. And that was the reason. Having a safe, stable, loving relationship for our child in common was much more important than what we had agreed on.
Chip Franklin:
It’s a tribute to the two of you. It’s a tribute.
Steve Moskowitz:
It really is.
Andi Monet:
Thank you. But we decided-
Steve Moskowitz:
And support for the other spouse rather than bad mouthing him.
Andi Monet:
Yes. No, I would never do that. Even if felt that way, because you’re bringing in a child into an adult discussion and that’s not appropriate. But that’s another talk.
Steve Moskowitz:
Okay. I say we have to do more podcasts with Andi, here, Chip.
Chip Franklin:
Our last podcast, it’s not part of this podcast, we talked about divorce. But it’s not that different than really what we’re talking about with salaries, because there’s a lot of emotional attachment to that. I mean, I’ve always had two jobs in my entire life. So if I really wanted to do something, money was always a little second to me. But I’ve been lucky. Some people are lucky with money. But with salaries, I think about a small business and they want someone to come work for them. And what are some of the things that they can offer that aren’t obvious, other than adding another zero to their salary?
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, one of them is lifestyle. Because I remember, for example, there were law firms in New York that were very prestigious law firms and they paid top dollar. But you know what they actually had there? They worked the attorneys so many hours, they literally physically had cots and showers, because they didn’t want you to waste time going home. You could have a few hours on the cot and shower up. But do you really want to work there? Because what happens is a lot of those firms, some new attorney will go in there, because of the prestigious name and the salary. And six months later they have medical conditions, and mental conditions, and they don’t want to be lawyers at all anymore. And they go away and do something totally different.
Chip Franklin:
Andi, are things like profit sharing or something that a smaller company could add? You can get a piece of the company?
Andi Monet:
Oh yeah, absolutely. There’s so many things and some of it is taxable and some of it isn’t, which is important to know as a small business owner. I mean, we can talk about when I was 20 we got free soda. That was amazing.
Steve Moskowitz:
Yeah, but that was three years ago.
Chip Franklin:
Oh, look at Steve.
Andi Monet:
I don’t wish. I don’t know. But in your 50s, that’s not quite a benefit anymore. And so there’s so many things you can do for people that don’t have to do with salary. And maybe this has to do with money, but there’s also not financial monetary options. But the financials are vacation pay, and sick pay, and emergency child care in case a parent’s sick and has to work and all those sort of obvious things. But the non-financial benefits can also include things like, well, I guess, tuition reimbursement is also financial, but flexible time. Some people start their productivity time at 10:00 AM if you’re in a creative, Hollywood, design area. And they’re not going to wake up at six in the morning.
Steve Moskowitz:
Another one is being able to work at home. I know right now, after a couple years of pandemic, a lot of people say they don’t want to go back to the office. And I’m thinking about people that have small children, where say, your office is an hour commute from your home. And the school calls up and says, “Your kid just broke his leg.” “Oh, my God, I got to get to the hospital!” Well, that takes you an hour. Whereas if you’re at home with the kid, you can, with an awful lot of jobs, say, “Okay, I’m going to stop work. Why is my child crying? I can attend to that. And then I’ll finish up this report later. It doesn’t matter.” So that’s a big one, because working at home, you don’t have to spend as much for clothes. You don’t have to commute.
Andi Monet:
You don’t have to take a shower.
Steve Moskowitz:
If you don’t want to. Grow a beard. There were the pandemic beards.
Chip Franklin:
I have one of those. Steve gives me a hard time about it every time I see him.
Steve Moskowitz:
For Christmas, maybe I’ll buy you a razor, Chip. But just the fact that you’re there for the child. So rather than the child being in daycare all day, you say, “Well, that’s not the way…” And again, that’s a personal decision, if you have daycare or not. But sometimes they don’t want daycare, or they can’t find daycare, or daycare isn’t affordable. They say, “Well, I’m actually home with my child all day.” So that could be a heck of a lot.
Andi Monet:
And also, kind of complementary to that is commuting, not only time and gas and energy, but for people who have… I’ve seen on some companies’ applications, “Do that you have reliable transportation?” If you don’t, you don’t really need that anymore. It doesn’t matter if your car’s working or not, at least for working from home purposes.
Steve Moskowitz:
And if you think about it, if you commute just an hour a day, that’s 10 hours a week you’ve saved. That’s like working a full day and some overtime on top of it.
Chip Franklin:
Steve, you talk about a lot with small businesses when they’re getting going, and we’ve had people that specialize in software that helps people track the money going in, money going out so they know where they are at any particular time. Or at least they can make a good projection of where they’ll be. As small businesses grow and they’re hiring people, obviously, you’re hiring and hoping that your revenue continues at a certain level that can handle those salaries. And is there a tax incentive maybe to say to a company and approach a employee, and I can ask you this, too, Andi, that, “Look, we’re going to show you our books, essentially, and as we grow, you’ll grow with us.” Kind of almost a commission sort of deal. Are there any special tax attitudes towards that, Steve? Or is that just a business practice that’s similar to all others?
Steve Moskowitz:
So you’re talking about business practice. And some jobs lend themselves to commission. Some don’t. For example, if you’re a salesperson, that could lead to a commission. Whereas if you’re doing something else, it depends, what are you doing and what are other people doing? And basically, you want to have a balance of what’s best for everything, the company, the people that run the company. What’s the company? The company is made up of people, individuals.
Chip Franklin:
If somebody paid you in stock and you cashed that stock in, is that capital gains or is that income?
Steve Moskowitz:
So then you’re getting fancy. So you’re getting into Internal Revenue Code Section 83(b) with stock options. And I promise I won’t take the whole show talking about it. But basically, if you do it right you can take what would’ve been ordinary income and turn that into capital gains with an election. That’s what the 83(b) election is about. And that basically, very roughly could chop your taxes in half. I’d look at the details though, for those of you that are watching. There’s a little bit more to it than that.
Chip Franklin:
Well, you can always contact Steve at Moskowitzllp.com if you have any of those questions. I gave a dollar once to an attorney so I could say that they were representing me. Is that BS or does that really mean…
Steve Moskowitz:
The only place that exists is on the Perry Mason Show.
Chip Franklin:
Okay, so that’s not real.
Steve Moskowitz:
It has nothing to do with it. So what happens is, if you consult an attorney in his or her capacity as an attorney, you have attorney and client code. So if I met you at a ball game and you said, “Oh, I’ve seen you on Chip’s show and I have a question,” and I answered as an attorney, that’s attorney and client privilege, even though they didn’t give me a penny.
Chip Franklin:
Good. That’s what I thought. The last question for you, Andi. I guess, because of the internet and because of just the way that information flows more freely now everywhere, with the good and bad of that obviously, when somebody does have a certain salary, and you can answer this, Steve, too, as an attorney, do, corporations often tell people, “If you disclose your salary, we can terminate you”? Is that a fair…
Steve Moskowitz:
Some companies do that.
Chip Franklin:
Interesting.
Andi Monet:
Absolutely. It’s actually in their employee handbook that you’re not allowed to discuss your salary.
Chip Franklin:
Well, people use it as a power play inside in their office, a power, interpersonal office… I don’t know. I never did well in that environment, probably because I talk too much.
Steve Moskowitz:
That’s why you are a radio show host.
Chip Franklin:
Andi, thank you so much. Will you come back, please?
Andi Monet:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Any time you need me. Talk to you soon. Bye-bye.
Chip Franklin:
Tell your husband we said hi, okay?
Andi Monet:
I will. He’s coming over in 15 minutes.
Chip Franklin:
All right. Thank you.
Andi Monet:
Bye-bye gentlemen.
Steve Moskowitz:
We got a few podcasts there.
Chip Franklin:
In fact, there is one. There’s a podcast out there and it’s called My Wife Hates Me. And they do it together. And they’re both remarried. They were married for 20 years. And so they have this thing and they talk about raising kids while they’re… It’s really interesting.
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, I mean, I know it’s a rare exception, but look at Demi Moore and Bruce Willis. I mean, again, for the benefit of the kids. And have somebody that you once loved and you now hate, and what does that do to kids?
Chip Franklin:
[inaudible 00:13:20].
Steve Moskowitz:
So-
Chip Franklin:
No, go ahead. I’m sorry.
Steve Moskowitz:
If there’s some way they can get along, it’s just better for everybody.
Chip Franklin:
Are tax liens and tax levies the same thing? And if not, how are they different?
Steve Moskowitz:
Absolutely different. And what happens is a lien is a notice to the world that you owe money. For example, if you have a mortgage on your house, that’s a lien. A levy is a seizure where the IRS comes and takes the money out of your bank account.
Chip Franklin:
Wow. So you could have a lien that turns into a levy, right?
Steve Moskowitz:
Sure. Well, it’s not that it turns into it. They’re two different actions. So you can have both a lien and a levy.
Chip Franklin:
Chip Franklin:
Many states, and I know they do this in Texas, they limit the ability of a mortgage company to come in and seize a property. They create a whole lot of steps for them to take before they can, which the good and bad of that is obviously, somebody has some hard times and they should have a chance to maybe come back and get back up. Or they find themselves in a financial situation that they didn’t expect. Maybe they were conned or whatever. In Texas, I was reading the statute. It’s six pages long just on that one consideration. The liens on a car is simple. They can come and tow it when you’re in your house, you’re home. It’s a much different deal. What are some other kinds of liens that turn into levies?
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, again, they don’t turn into a levy. What you were talking about, you buy a house. So you have a lien. That’s the mortgage. That’s a notice to the world that you owe Bank X the money on your house. And then you stop paying it. At some point they’re going to take the house away from you. So basically, the levy is the seizure. The ones I deal with most are tax liens and levies, where somebody doesn’t pay it. But there’s other ramifications. If the government puts a tax lien on you, that’s a big hit on your credit score. And part of the problem is that, let’s assume that on Monday, the government puts a lien on you. That’s a notice that you owe taxes. Your credit score drops. On Tuesday, you pay the taxes in full. And on Wednesday, the IRS removes the lien. That stays on your credit report for 10 years, Chip.
And with your credit score, that’s an area where they talk about derogatory public information. And the problem with your credit score is the lower your credit score, the more difficult and the more expensive it is to get a loan. So if your next door neighbor has a higher credit score than you, the credit he or she is going to get, it’s going to cost them less.
Chip Franklin:
And also jobs. You can apply for jobs and they can look up your credit score and they can use that.
Steve Moskowitz:
Some insurance companies even use that when you go for insurance.
Chip Franklin:
Good stuff. All right. This next guest is something you and I talked about this the other day in anticipation. When I was a kid, the only coach that existed was the fat guy who used to tell me to run faster in practice. But coaching has turned into not just an opportunity for people to get into something. But I view it as a huge necessity to build acumen and knowledge and to be successful.
Jay McDonald received his MBA from the Darden School of Business at University of Virginia. We’ll talk about that, since I went to Virginia Tech. And he served on the board of trustees. A graduate of Stanford University’s Executive Leadership Program. And he’s currently chairman of the board of the ECI Group in Atlanta. He’s a licensed real estate professionally and a nationally-recognized trainer for commercial lenders, credit administrators. And he is also a member, to our point, of the prestigious Forbes Coaches Council. And he’s also written a book called, Strategic Jaywalking. Nice enough to join us here on Practical Tax with Tax Attorney Steve Moskowitz. Hello, Jay!
Steve Moskowitz:
Hello, how are you?
Jay McDonald:
Hello, Chip, Steve. Good to see you.
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, nice glasses, there. You’re looking good.
Jay McDonald:
Thank you.
Chip Franklin:
Let’s jump into that and that question about business coaching and almost tutelage really in a way, too. First of all, how did you get into that? How did that kind of come your way? Did you just see a need and stepped in or did people come to you and say, “I need help”?
Jay McDonald:
Well, after I flunked retirement five times, I have been a serial entrepreneur for most of my career and owned and ran companies that we built and sold. Well, the last time a friend called me and asked if I would coach him. And I said, “Well, I’d be happy to, but I would probably be practicing malpractice.” I said, “I’ve coached leaders my whole career, but I’ve not been necessarily trained as an executive leadership coach. But tell me what you want and why you want to coach.” And the answer, which is similar to many people is, “It’s lonely at the top. And they are not many people that you can talk to that will tell you the truth.” So in the words of one of my clients, I became “the mirror that doesn’t always smile back.”
Chip Franklin:
Well, can I interrupt you? You just said something at the beginning of that. And I’ve written speeches for people for years. And I always try to teach them the power of self-deprecation, the power of being able to let people that you are schooling not feel that you’re not a human being and have the same issues and foibles that they have. And that gives them confidence that they, too, can climb.
Jay McDonald:
Right. Absolutely. So as to how I got into coaching, once, I was engaged by this friend. I sought out a friend of mine who was in that, the coaching world, and said, “Help me to learn how best to be a coach.” I knew how to be a CEO and run a business. But coaching is the whole other side of that, which when you’re a CEO, you’re making decisions all the time and you’re helping direct people. As a coach, you want the ownership of the decision to remain with the client. So you want them to self determine what they do or you don’t do. And while you can give advice and certainly share your experiences, for them to ultimately have ownership of it, you need to tell them, “I’m more the question person than the answer person.”
I may have experienced a similar opportunity or challenge that they are, but I’m me and they’re themselves. And they’ve got to make those decisions in a way that they believe will work for them. And if it doesn’t work, instead of, “Jay’s a dummy. And I should have never done this in the first place,” it’s, “Well, that didn’t work. Maybe I need to try something different.” So accountability and ownership is a big part of what people are looking for. They’re looking for truth tellers or somebody that’s, will be candid and honest with them and make them stretch. The best professionals in the world in sports have coaches, whether it’s the best professional golfers, or tennis players, or basketball players, or what have you. And those coaches are there to make them the best version of who they are.
Chip Franklin:
Well, real quickly, Hank Haney, who was Tiger’s coach for years, I played golf with him once. He’s like a 10 handicap. But he’s an amazing coach. Steve, when you have somebody in front of you that’s saying, “What should I do?” I mean, you don’t massage the message, right? I mean, because it’s tax advice, right?
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, much like a physician, you have to tell him what it is. And as far as coaching goes, I mean, that goes back to the beginning of time. May have different names. Advising, what parent doesn’t coach his or her kids? Not to mention the clergy, not to mention bosses, not to mention friends. And with a client, oftentimes they’ll say, “Well what should I do?” And then we’ll say, “So you have some options. For example, you could put some money away in a pension plan and save taxes. Or you could buy some more equipment and save taxes. Or oh, you own a rental building. Well, there’s something called cost segregation, where we can greatly accelerate your depreciation. And oh, there’s something else. If your spouse qualifies for a real estate professional, we can offset that paper loss from the building against wages, or profits, or dividends, or interests. There’s all kinds of things we can do.”
And then one of the things that I do that I think is a lot different than most tax people though, I don’t just talk about the mindset. “What do you want to do?” Because what I don’t want to do is set up something that saves every last penny and then somebody’s miserable with it. And I’ve seen that, where people will come in with other advisors who saved them every last penny and they hate their lives. And they say, “Can you undo it?” So that’s part of what you have to do. “Well, wait a minute. Tell me what you want first. And then I’ll tell you the best tax way to do it.” And I often use the example, if you had a twin sibling exactly like you financially, but you had different wants, desires, needs, et cetera, the plans I would set up with you could be polar opposites.
Chip Franklin:
I got out of the market in January 2020, late January, and I talked to my advisor in April and when it was down to 19,000. And I said, “Do you think this is a time to buy?” And he said, “Do you have your big boy pants on, because this is…” I like that kind of advice. I like that. That’s like, this looks like the bottom, but I can only give you advice. You have to be the guy that makes the decision.
Steve Moskowitz:
Think about this. When you talk to somebody, and this comes up a lot with millennials, do you prefer experiences to material objects? For example, would you rather have a big house and you can’t move around from it? Or would you rather have a smaller house and travel the world?
Chip Franklin:
All right. Jay, let me ask you something about commercial lending. I’m kind of curious, your opinion and what’s happening right now with commercial lending and also, just after the post pandemic escape back to working from home and the slow drift to normalcy there, let’s start with commercial lending right now. What’s going on with that?
Jay McDonald:
Well, demand has actually been relatively slow for most commercial banks. Slower than they would like, even though interest rates have been low. So there’s plenty of money available. Deposits have been growing. As rates have started to climb back up, more and more banks are reevaluating their underwriting. Obviously, it depends on the type of loan and the type of business. I’ll give you an example. One of the hot markets over the last few years has been the self storage market. Lots of people have gotten into that market for real estate and income-producing properties. And bankers I’ve talked to recently have said, “Instead of underwriting things that they might have six or nine months ago at a hundred percent occupancy and full rental rates, they’re underwriting them at 75 or 80% occupancy and maybe a slightly less than top-of-the-market price.”
Even though still in the market from a resale standpoint, those kinds of properties are selling for 4% cap rates, which is effectively 25 times net operating income said another way. And they’ll appraise that way. But realistically, there’s a softening coming in lots of markets. They’ve also redlined certain segments of the market, which they think may be overbuilt, again, real estate side. On the business side of things, consumer spending is still pretty solid, but credit card debt is up substantially. So a year ago, 18 months ago, people had built up reserves during the pandemic. They couldn’t travel. They couldn’t eat out as much. And they had cash. Plus there were stimulus programs that paid people not to work and paid PPP loans, all those business side, plus the personal income that they were receiving from either the federal or state government.
That’s run out for the most part. And now, people are, their discretionary spending is being a little less flamboyant and a little more… I’ve got a client in the ladies’ clothing business online and he also has a baby clothing business. He says they’re buying baby clothes to beat the band, but they’re buying fewer clothes for themselves.
Chip Franklin:
Well, let me ask you a question real quick. Did you watch the football game last night, Steve or Jay?
Steve Moskowitz:
I did not.
Chip Franklin:
They were showing in the stands, Roger Goodell. And sitting next to him, his guest was Jeff Bezos. And I went up to watch it at a bar. And I’m talking to this guy and he goes, “I love this guy.” One guy’s going, “I love this guy.” The guy right next to him, the guy’s getting in this argument, the other guy lost his business. He had-
Jay McDonald:
Because of Amazon?
Chip Franklin:
Yeah. And nobody could have seen Amazon 25 years ago. I say that, but I mean, how it’s had an effect on brick-and-mortar, and lending, and just the way we shop.
Steve Moskowitz:
I’ve seen pictures of the way Jeff Bezos started out in his first office. It looked like a little rinky dink… And he lost money for a long time. But he convinced investors, “Don’t worry about it. Just give me your money. Give me your money. I’ll turn it around.”
Jay McDonald:
And the way he migrated from books to seems like almost-
Steve Moskowitz:
Everything else.
Jay McDonald:
Including NFL football.
Chip Franklin:
Right. He and he owns the Washington Post. And they say he might buy a football or baseball team. I wonder how you guys do this. I mean, both of you are in the business of accumulation of facts and then an interpretation of that and then essentially, if not a mentorship advice based on those two things. It seems to me the world has changed irrevocably since 1995. I’ve yet to meet a person that claims to really have seen it coming. How do you prepare for something that it seems today you have no idea where it’s coming from, the speed or the direction or the accuracy of whatever that movement is? Steve, I’ll ask you first. I mean, how do you prepare for something like that?
Steve Moskowitz:
The best that you can. So what you do is you take a look at the past and then you take a look at what’s going on in the future and you try to make your best decision. And understand, it’s not a hundred percent. You’re doing everything you can. In any business you want to have planning. But part of the planning you want to do is the flexibility to say, “Not everything will be in the plan.” That’s what an executive deals with. You make all kinds of plans. But much like a football quarterback, you’re in the huddle, you made a plan. You come up to the line and what do you do? You call an audible. “Well, wait a minute, the linebacker’s changed position. We can’t run that play after all.” That’s essentially what you have to do. The best plane you can, but never be afraid to call that audible.
Chip Franklin:
Let me take your metaphor and go one step further. Today, those quarterbacks, when we were all kids, the quarterbacks called their own plays. Now, they got a bug in their ear. Some guy that’s not in the middle of the game is calling that play. He walks up. He can see the linebacker’s unsure or the safety’s cheating in. That guy can’t see it. Not the guy up in the top. But we’re taking away that from the actual field generals. Is there a metaphor there for what’s happening in our society, Jay? Is it we have too many people in our ears and not enough business acumen and instinct?
Jay McDonald:
Well, I think it could be. But I think leadership has changed from what I call the command and control, militaristic, hierarchal leadership to more of a coaching-type of leadership. I’m not talking about an outside coach, although a lot of people are using executive coaches. But I’m talking about the CEOs, the mid-level managers, collaborating interactively with the people where the rubber meets the road. In your metaphor, the quarterback and the lineman. I mean, for a pro team, using Steve’s example, every play has different call. Every player’s got a different assignment on whatever that play is. The linemen are even making calls in these audibles once the quarterback does and so forth. So organizations, I think, the better ones are more adept at staying closer to the problem and allowing and empowering people to make those decisions at that level, as opposed to an ivory tower where you may be clueless.
One of the things I say in my book is historically, going back to ’95 and before that, the big ate the small. Now it’s the fast eating the slow, in my opinion, and being able to change and keep yourself informed. As Steve said, you’re never going to have a hundred percent of the answers or even 80%. Colin Powell used to say that he encouraged his leaders to go with their gut after they were 40 to 70% right, because if you wait for perfection, you’ll never make a decision.
Chip Franklin:
By the way, I played poker one night across the street from Colin Powell’s house. And I was going out to my car and he was taking the trash out. And I’d met him once before. And I said to him, I go, “So the General has to take the trash out.” And he goes, “In this house, I’m the private.”
Jay McDonald:
That’s great!
Steve Moskowitz:
One of the things that you said, Jay, I talk about all the time, where you have to be ready for constant change. It’s evolution. And with evolution is, evolve or die. That’s what you always have to remember. And it doesn’t matter that you’ve done something X number of years in the past, it doesn’t matter. Evolve or die.
Jay McDonald:
Well, look at Kodak.
Chip Franklin:
Right. That’s a great one.
Jay McDonald:
And there are hundreds of examples like that. One of the things I try to tell the people I work with too is decisions are what you get paid to do. And just because you make a decision doesn’t mean you’ve, other than life and death decisions and perhaps marriage, which was part of your previous feature, you get a chance to make another decision. So if you made a decision and the world’s changing, or the circumstances or facts changed, make another decision. And you keep making decisions to try to improve your odds.
Chip Franklin:
I love the name of your book, Strategic Jaywalking and The Secret Sauce to Life and Leadership Excellence. I love the irony in that title. Well, I’m going to jump into it. Jay, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate you being here. Thank you.
Steve Moskowitz:
Thanks so much.
Jay McDonald:
Thank you, Chip. Thank you, Steve.
Steve Moskowitz:
Take care.
Jay McDonald:
[inaudible 00:35:17] you both.
Chip Franklin:
We’ll have to get you back again soon, okay?
Jay McDonald:
Sure. I’d love to. Thank you.
Chip Franklin:
All right. Be well. Thank you.
Jay McDonald:
Bye-bye.
Chip Franklin:
You got to write a book. Let’s write a book together.
Steve Moskowitz:
Okay.
Chip Franklin:
I’m serious. I’m totally serious. You have stories that are… Most people think of accounting as zeros and ones. But the real stuff is between the zeros and ones. It’s that gray area.
Steve Moskowitz:
I deal with people’s lives. And my office is far more confessional than office. And a lot of times it’s like going to a doctor. If you’re going to a cardiologist and your foot hurts. You know he’s going to tell you about your foot. You know you’re going to tell him about your foot hurts. And he’ll say, “Well, look, that’s the podiatrist down the hall.” But he’s still a doctor. And I hear people’s most intimate thoughts and problems. And finance is usually around them. Because again, when were talking with the very nice woman, it causes so many problems. And then the taxes get involved. And then the wife gets involved. And then a business is involved. People are involved, kids, lifestyle.
And I’ve heard a lot of stuff. And a lot of times people will tell you why they did something. They didn’t pay the tax taxes because and their divorce payments were too much. Or the kids needed something. And then you have what the law requires and what people do. So we could write quite the book.
Chip Franklin:
We should. I used to lose socks in the dryer all the time and it drove me crazy. So I just bought all matching socks. So see, even in the middle of a problem, sometimes there’s a solution.
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, that’s why, if you look at some company leaders, they have a dozen suits of the same color. One thing Steve Jobs said, “That’s one less decision you make every day.”
Chip Franklin:
I hear you. Steve, great stuff, man. That was a great show. Thank you so much.
Steve Moskowitz:
Always a pleasure. Thanks, Chip.
Chip Franklin:
And that is Practical Tax, tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. And this is Practical Tax. We’ll see you next time. Thanks.
Outro:
Thanks for joining us on the Practical Tax podcast with tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. To hear more and view more podcasts, go to moskowitzllp.com/practicaltax.