Podcast (practical-tax): Play in new window | Download
Chris Piazza and Steve Moskowitz discuss the many aspects to having a cannabis business when the product is illegal, interstate business, and will working remotely survive? Will there be an office space “crash” or will people want to come back to work?
Episode Transcript
Intro:
Welcome to the Practical Tax podcast, with tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. The Practical Tax podcast is brought to you by Moskowitz, LLP, a tax law firm.
Disclaimer:
The information contained in this podcast is based upon information available as of date of recording and will not be updated for changes in law regulation. Any information is not to be considered tax advice or legal advice and does not form an attorney/client relationship. Further, this podcast may be construed as attorney advertising. You should see professional consultation for your individual tax and legal situation.
Chip Franklin:
Welcome to Practical Tax with Steve Moskowitz, our tax attorney extraordinaire. I’m Chip Franklin. Steve, good to have you here as always.
Steve Moskowitz:
Always a pleasure.
Chip Franklin:
It’s interesting to talk about the many different things that surround tax. In fact, it’s almost impossible to find subject matter that’s not affected by the government and the internal revenue service, right?
Steve Moskowitz:
It’s funny, but anybody that goes out to dinner with me knows that no matter what you say, somehow that reminds me something about tax.
Chip Franklin:
Right. Well, this is a topic that we talk about a lot and you’ve actually done videos before on this, but it’s constantly changing. And that is a business of cannabis in the United States, a business that has a built-in irony. The fact that cannabis is still a schedule I controlled substance. Or THC anyway. And so joining us right now is Chris Piazza from Cannabis Devices. And here, Chris, good to have you here with tax attorney, Steve Moskowitz, with Practical Tax.
Chris Piazza:
Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Yeah, Chris with CannaDevices.
Chip Franklin:
So in just a couple years, your company’s done incredibly well. You supply 10 publicly traded cannabis companies, along with a lot of other operators in that business. And throughout all this growth, you guys have supported small businesses, and Steve and I love to talk about the success of small businesses in this country. It is the backbone of this country. You’re also a founding member of a nonprofit startup syndicate as well. So let me just pose this question to both you. And I’ll start out with, how would you describe the state of America’s cannabis success right now? We’ll start with you, obviously, Chris.
Chris Piazza:
It’s a growing industry. It’s going to keep growing, and ever changing from here. What I think we’re starting to see is a little bit more consolidation. We’re starting to see some more bigger players taking a little bit more foothold. Now we’re starting to see brands where the cannabis dispensaries were before. We’re starting to see a lot more brands build, and companies a little bit like mine and the accessories, the non plant touching. It seems to me that the plant itself, the gold rush is over and now the licenses have value. But we’re starting to see a lot more consolidation. The east coast is spreading west, and that’s my view of the state of it currently.
Chip Franklin:
Steve, how does that work, if a cannabis business in Illinois wants to work with a cannabis business in California? Does the fact that it’s a schedule I controlled substance affect that relationship?
Steve Moskowitz:
So I got to use the technical term, as a lawyer. So I’ll use the proper technical term. There’s total craziness here. And what happens is that you have a business that is illegal on the federal side, it’s legal in some states, and there’s all kinds of problems. And of course, me and taxes, the first thing I look at is, well, what’s the taxability? Okay, so number one, all income is taxed, legal or illegal. So if you were in the murder for hire business or a bank robbery business, legally, you’d still have to pay tax on your bank robbing proceeds, murder proceeds.
Chip Franklin:
Get out of here. Really?
Steve Moskowitz:
Honest to God.
Chip Franklin:
Wait, that’s been settled in court, that if you steal a $1,000-
Steve Moskowitz:
That is well settled.
Chip Franklin:
Oh, that’s funny.
Steve Moskowitz:
But if you go out and rob a bank, don’t forget to put those bank proceeds on your tax. So as to the cannabis business, you say, well, all right, I understand. I have to report all my total gross revenue. But can you deduct expenses? And here the Congress, in their infinite wisdom said, you can only deduct cost of goods sold, not operating expenses. So you say, well, okay, what’s cost of goods sold? So for example, if you had a store and you have chips… A cannabis store. And you say, all right, I took in a million dollars of gross revenue, and the product cost me 300,000, I could deduct the 300 of the cost. But what about your rent? Well, that’s an operating expense, you can’t deduct that. So what some businesses did, said, well, wait a minute, let’s go ahead and besides selling cannabis, let’s sell T-shirts. It’s legal to sell T-shirts. So now in Chip’s store, you can walk in, you can buy some cannabis. Or you can buy a T-shirt.
So now we can deduct the rent for the portion of the store that we use for selling T-shirts. And then we also, when we’re classifying our expenses, what can be classified in cost of goods sold? Because we get all of that. And that’s one of the things that we have here. So it’s really complex, but that’s what happens in the income tax on this.
Chip Franklin:
Can I ask you both a question? First Chris, do you sense the momentum moving towards the federal government declassifying cannabis? And is that bringing the big players in?
Chris Piazza:
The declassification is a big question. My eyes are more on the safe banking act and the changing of the banking laws, which I just saw another thing just got put to vote.
Steve Moskowitz:
That’s a big deal, the banking, yeah.
Chris Piazza:
That’s what I’m really watching even more so. I think that’s where the big players, they’re going to come in when that changes, more than anything else. That’s my opinion.
Steve Moskowitz:
And Chip, when it comes to law, it was basically what… I’m going to answer that by what I used to say to my law students when I was a law professor. Unlike physical science, it is because it is, law is what those in power at the time say it is.For example, Roe versus Wade. Well, it was legal for 50 years. Now what do we have? And what’s the administration. Are you going to have an administration that is favorable or unfavorable to this? What do the voters want? What are their politicians saying? And that’s one of the things that you have to take a look at. So we wait and see. But also the problem with the people in the cannabis business is they’re in that uncomfortable position that any day, your store that is perfectly legal in your state might get raided by the feds.
Chip Franklin:
Wow. Steve, how much is the federal government losing in tax revenue by not declassifying this, and then taxing the hell out of it?
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, here’s the problem. If everybody complies with the law, not only are they losing nothing, they are getting way more than from another business. So suppose for example, Chris opens up next to my law firm. And he has Chris’s cannabis business and I have my law firm. And I get to deduct all my expenses. I get to deduct all my rent. I get to deduct everything.
Chip Franklin:
Oh, I see.
Steve Moskowitz:
Chris doesn’t. So the bottom line is, if Chris and I have identical financials, our gross revenue is identical and our expenses are identical, Chris will pay way more in taxes than I do because he can’t deduct his operating expenses, where I, like most other businesses, can. That’s what is something that is so unfair. And the problem is, and I’m going to quote from former president Reagan now. Now, again, as an attorney, my advice and counsel is always comply with all laws. When President Reagan took office, the top tax rate was 70%. He dropped it down to 28%. And what he said is the lower you make the tax rate, the less incentive people have to cheat and vice versa. So the problem with the tax rate as it is now, there are some people that might say they don’t want to comply with the law or whatever. Just like with, you take a look at the states and the cities, they all put their hands in there. [inaudible 00:08:58], well, you know what? You got to pay special tax for this and special tax for that.
So what you have is even though in a lot of areas, cannabis has been legalized, there’s still a big illegal market because of the price differential. So again, as an attorney, what I would like to see is all this being legal, everybody’s on a legal playing field. And then you can have the regulation of the product for just like a restaurant, safety health, use the bank and have the same taxes as everybody else.
Chip Franklin:
But Steve, if there were more businesses in the long run, wouldn’t the state and federal government’s coffers be bigger because there’d be more-
Steve Moskowitz:
Of course, they would. Because the problem that I see now, there is such a large illegal market and the government gets zero taxes if somebody is doing something illegally. So even though I told you that legally even if you murder somebody, you’re a hitman, you’re supposed to put that on your tax return. Let’s face it, most hit men and bank robbers commit another felony and don’t do that on-
Chip Franklin:
Well, that’s how they got Capone, right?
Steve Moskowitz:
That’s the only way. And actually the IRS has a big poster up about that. They said only the IRS could get Al Capone.
Chip Franklin:
I love it. Hey, so again, Chris, describe if you would just a little bit, who is the typical cannabis retailer and what are the customers like? Because I know that my mother, who, Steve and I were just talking about this, she was taking edibles at 96 years old to help her sleep, with just two milligrams of THC and mostly melatonin. But it made a huge difference and it helped her with her aches and pains. And it seems to me that the customer has come a long way from Cheech and Chong. So who is opening these stores and who’s going to them?
Chris Piazza:
Well, so I would say it’s very different by state. So out west, it might be a family operator that has open up one or two locations. East of the Mississippi, you have a lot more of the corporate cannabis side, where public companies raising huge amounts of capital and building huge footprints. As far as the user goes, it’s actually very interesting. We do education popups at dispensaries to talk about accessories and things like that, and the first time that I did it, I was really caught off guard. I had some pipes out and I just had them sitting on the table. And an older lady walked up, she picked one up, she goes, “How do I use this?”
Chris Piazza:
I was like, “Really? You put the cannabis here and you light it.” So we’re seeing a very large amount of people that are coming through that maybe they’ll start dabbling with edibles like you were just mentioning, and then they’ll start getting into the flower and concentrates. But it’s really, we’re spreading to all age demographics at this point. It’s even more accessible than alcohol because at 96, I’m not sure if kicking back a couple shots is something that a lot of 96 year olds are going to be doing, but having a couple edibles to be able to sleep better. I think we’re seeing the wider range of users even than our know of.
Steve Moskowitz:
You know what’s also going to be a big change, Chip? If the federal government ever said it’s like any other legal business, you’d see all the tobacco companies would jump into this. They’re all set up for it.
Chip Franklin:
They already have, right? Is Altria invested in cannabis, do you know Chris?
Chris Piazza:
I’m not exactly sure. I believe so. That’s up in Canada, right?
Chip Franklin:
No Altria used to be Philip Morris, if I’m not mistaken. They changed their name after the big settlement, the billions of dollars settlement with the federal government.
Chris Piazza:
So what we’re actually seeing, which is really interesting, that when we were talking about alcohol before, it’s actually a lot of beer companies, because hops is a very similar plant to cannabis itself. They’re cousins. So a lot of those types of farmers are actually able to transition to cannabis very easily as well.
Chip Franklin:
It’s amazing stuff. So I guess it’s hard to tell which way the winds are blowing here. But at the end of the day, I always thought that money would win, that obviously most of Americans know that marijuana is not a gateway drug anymore. Especially if you’re buying it from a store. You know, Steve, it’s it kind of the-
Chris Piazza:
Well you know, Chip, here’s the thing that always boggled me. Before certain changes in laws, if you went to a physician, he or she could prescribe heavy duty narcotics with all kinds of horrible side effects. But a little bit of cannabis, oh, that’s a different story. And then I look at the politics now. I look at how divided our country is. Basically half the country hates the other half. And you look at areas where people have very strong feelings and they’re polar opposites. So we go along with cannabis and basically it’s going to be who is in control and what are they going to do? If anything, are they going to leave it alone? Or are they going to say, “Hey, let’s legalize it on the federal level.” Or they going to say, “Wait a minute, we got a lot of places to raid now.” What’s going to happen. And again, you see things changing. When you see the overturning of Roe, you can see that a few people, literally, a few people can turn the law upside down for the whole country.
Chip Franklin:
Steve and I, you and I are old enough to remember when the biggest differences between the parties were just basically how much to spend on what programs, and that’s what they would find about. And today-
Steve Moskowitz:
I remember when you and I were in kindergarten class discussing that.
Chip Franklin:
Yeah. Chris, thank you so much. Will you come back on again? Keep us up to date on what’s going on?
Chris Piazza:
Would love to, would love to. Thanks for having me.
Chip Franklin:
Thank you so much, again. Chris Piazza, again from the side of this issue, Cannabis Devices. I was talking to him earlier, Steve, he says they don’t touch this stuff. His company just helps facilitate and move this forward. And I got to tell you, everybody I’ve ever met, and some on the show that are in this business, all seem to me to be good, solid, honest Americans that just want to help a lot of people. My nephew had epilepsy, was having seven to 10 seizures a day. The cannabis oil, the CBD stuff, knocked it down to two or three a week. I mean, tremendous impact.
Steve Moskowitz:
You know, Chip, again, like anything else, like a glass of wine with dinner or other things, there’s nothing evil about that. And most medical people, most physicians say that if you have a glass or two of wine with dinner, it’ll actually improve your health.
Chip Franklin:
And this is a pretty simple one, but it’s one that I think a lot of people struggle with, especially people that are self-employed. What’s the latest on how much I can deduct for car mileage and for car maintenance if I use it for business? And is it better, tax wise, to lease or buy for a small business?
Steve Moskowitz:
Normally I recommend buying over leasing, because normally it’s a better deal. The problem with leasing is that it’s basically a financing device. And where a lot of people run into trouble is initially they say, “Oh, I can lease the car. I can get more car for less money. Isn’t that attractive?” But you don’t have anything. You can rent a hotel room too, but when the hotel leases up, that’s it. You don’t have the house. And the other problem is a lot of people get trapped, but they don’t realize they drive the car and they have those excess miles. So normally I recommend buying because it’s usually a better deal. Again, there can always be the exception. They can always do the calculations for you, which we actually do for the clients when they ask us that question.
But as a general rule. And then what happens as a general rule, you’re best off deducting your actual expenses. Gas, which is now just through the roof.
Chip Franklin:
Right.
Steve Moskowitz:
Oil, maintenance, insurance. And what a lot of people miss is things like car washes. If you use your car for business… I bet if you’re a real estate agent showing houses to your clients, I bet you don’t show up in a dirty car.
Chip Franklin:
That’s great. I never would’ve thought of that.
Steve Moskowitz:
People miss that all the time. Those expenses are usually a lot more.
Chip Franklin:
All right, our next guest is a workplace expert. And we’ve seen this happen, especially here in the city, with office space. When people were allowed to work at home, there was a question of like, “Would they ever come back?” And if they’re, if they’re not coming back, what does that mean for commercial real estate? Excuse me. And also, how much better could a company perform if they didn’t need all that office space overhead and what kind of companies work under that? Joining us right now is Joel Patterson. He is with thevested.com, a firm that’s always on the list of best places to work. We appreciate you coming in here. Joel, has the pandemic changed the workplace forever?
Joel Patterson:
Clearly. There’s no doubt about it. It forced us to try some things that we had never done before, really lean on the technology, see how it would work, will productivity stay up? All those things have been answered at this point. I think where we are now, especially with where the economy is, and whether you want to go dive into the recession talk or not. But sliding back a little bit from where we’ve been over the last year and a half, there is no question that as we get into, it’s going to come back a little bit more to where we’ve seen it before, where people are typically in the office. But to say that it hasn’t changed or to claim that it hasn’t changed as some people do, that’s just not the case. I mean, it’s at least a high… For those people that can right?
Manufacturing people, hospitality people, they can’t work from home. But the people that can, I mean, there is no doubt about it. Before we move on, though, I mean, I only got a little bit of your previous segment and I will tell you that as somebody that… I’ve never actually said this before in public, but I’ve somebody who, since I was in high school, I was a user of cannabis. And I’ll tell you, I’m one of those people that, I’ve never… I get the stereotype. And I think the stereotype exists for a reason because there are people where what marijuana does to them, it just shuts them down. And I am one of those people where I’ve honestly felt like it’s the one thing, and a natural thing and it’s not alcohol and that sort of thing, that allows me to just be normal. And it’s frustrating when you look at all the different rules, and you guys were talking about regulations on the federal level versus… And it impacts me as a business too, because what I do is we work with software packages that allow businesses to grow.
And the company that I represent, it’s an Oracle product called NetSuite. They don’t allow us to sell to cannabis companies because it’s still federally, technically illegal. From a personal perspective, it seems like I just don’t understand the arguments these days. But also as an entrepreneur, as somebody that is really interested in new and innovative industries that might grow, might allow us to grow from a revenue perspective, I mean, there’s just so many angles to this deal that is… I don’t know. Especially from somebody from Texas.
Chip Franklin:
Yeah.
Joel Patterson:
I mean, it’ll be a long time. But anyway, I just wanted to touch on that because I was really enjoying the conversation.
Chip Franklin:
Think that’s exciting to see. That’s one of the reasons I love doing this with Steve, is that taxes may sound like a dry subject, but it’s anything, but. It’s a part of everybody’s life, and it obviously influences government policy, and anxiety and dread. And in some cases they believe without taxes, we couldn’t have done some of the incredible things we’ve done through DARPA and other things. But let me ask you, Steve, you just… The pandemic, you’re bringing everybody back to a location in the city. People can still work from at home and some will, but let me ask you. When corporations are making this decision to bring people back, sometimes it’s against their own financial interest initially, but they believe in the long run that having people there will make the company more profitable. Is that accurate, you think?
Steve Moskowitz:
There’s real differences depending on the management of the company. And what I’ve seen an awful lot of with our clients is that people are taking smaller offices and some people come in every day, some people never come in, and other people come in from time to time. And there’s so many advantages of working remotely. For example, if somebody is in a very high cost area, what we’ve seen a lot here in California, is people moved out of California, where they were renting a small apartment that wasn’t so hot. And for what they were paying in rent, they bought a nice big house in another jurisdiction that for example, Texas doesn’t have a state income tax, where California has a high state income tax. Other people are more productive because the time you would’ve spent commuting, you can spend working. Then it’s a question now of some people say, “Well, you know what, if I don’t have… This is my uniform.”
But a lot of people say, “If I don’t have to dress up, I can work better. I’d rather be in a T-shirt.” That’s fine, as long as things are produced. Working from home is ideal for a self starter. We’re not talking about somebody that has to be managed and saying, “Put down your personal phone and get back to work.” We’re talking about people that are productive people. So what I predict in the future is most companies will have an office, but it will be a smaller office, and there’ll be a lot of remote working. And it really works out for people. Not to mention the fact that our whole lifestyle, for example, going on vacation. Well, do you really go on vacation or do you take your computer with you and you work at least part time? Well, that’s remote work. It’s so useful. And therefore, really the clients and the customers benefit because people are more available to them, same with the email.
Chip Franklin:
It’s interesting, Steve, because you and I… I was working in San Francisco, Joel, doing talk radio for six years in the city and then the pandemic hit. And then the next two and a half years, I did it from a room from a house 700 miles, or 500 miles away in San Diego. And the truth is, A, it sounded better. B, I’m a people person, but in some businesses, when you talk to people… And like phone calls. A phone call could be even more intimate sometimes than a one-to-one. Because you drop what the person looks like and it goes from the head. And I wonder, this right now, you’re in Texas, right?
Joel Patterson:
Yeah.
Chip Franklin:
So we’re all over the place here, yet we have a conversation. We’re moving thoughts forward. And I’m wondering if in some places, obviously manufacturing is going to be impossible, but in other areas, if this… Everybody is talking about this catastrophic crash in downtown real estate, I think you’re going to find companies take that real estate that need that. I think Steve’s office probably does. You have to have people around talking, looking at numbers on paper. Stop me if I’m wrong, Steve. But it does benefit you in many cases to have these attorneys together with ideas?
Steve Moskowitz:
So the bottom line is, I just signed a new lease in downtown San Francisco in a top building. But the difference is the office that I have now is smaller than the office I had before. Because right now I’m broadcasting to you from my living room in San Francisco. I don’t have to be in the office to do this. And I’ve also, I took a survey of clients well when the pandemic began, and I was amazed how many clients preferred the remote. Because clients say, “Well, you know what? I don’t have to drive into your office. I don’t have to park.” And then depending on the city, some people complained about having to interact with homeless, walking from a garage to a business. And they didn’t like that. So what I found the majority of clients said, “Wow.” Before the pandemic, people would take time off from work.
Some of them would even take the day off to come and visit me. And I would come in and my suit and tie, and we’d sit down and shake hands. And that same person, instead of having to take a minimum half a day off to come and see me, can now work with me and will talk for whatever time it is, 15 minutes, half an hour, an hour, whatever. And they’re in the comfort of their home or they’re in their office, and they didn’t have to take that time up. It’s more productive. And with the computers, we can see each other. We can look at documents at the same time. We talk about looking at documents, with the computer, Chip, you can be in China and you’re in Texas and we could all look at the same documents together. Share them.
So it’s actually become more efficient. Now what also has to happen is people had to become more tech literate. Even myself, before the pandemic, I would meet everybody in person and my assistant would hand me a paper file. Well, now I look at those things in my computer and I’m doing the Zoom, I’m doing the phone. It’s different, but it’s really more efficient. And most people seem them prefer it.
Chip Franklin:
Well, and I’m sitting here doing this with a suit and tie on, in my underwear. I’m just kidding. But you’ll never know really. But point is, is that what matters is now we have the ability to focus exactly on what we want. And Joel, I don’t know-
Steve Moskowitz:
Just one more to your point here. If we were doing everything in person, what’s the likelihood that Joel would hop on an airplane and come to California to do this interview? I’m going to guess probably not. So you know what? This interview is richer because we can reach out to Joel and it’s reasonable. He can be in his home or his office in Texas, spend 15 or 20 minutes with us, and it’s 15 or 20 minutes. You’re not going to hop on a plane to do this.
Joel Patterson:
[crosstalk 00:27:38]. I mean, I’d agree with that. Honestly, it depends on the reason. Personally, even though I’m perfectly adaptable to what we’re doing these days and have no problem with it, but I am always going to defer to being in person. So if I have an opportunity to do this interview in person, even if it’s minimal or marginal, kind of what I think will be the benefit, I’d probably do it. Now, I agree with you that most people aren’t like me. I mean, most people aren’t necessarily going to do that, but that piece of it, it’s not just the 15 minutes of the interview or the 20 minutes of the interview. It’s what the 15 or 20 minutes before and the 15 or 20 minutes after, that’s where the magic happens in my mind. We have 70 employees and we were built from day one to all be in the same space.
Our office was designed for that. We are a technology consulting firm, our people work on lots of different projects. So collaboration is important. And we built for that, and yet as the pandemic hit, we had to shift. And now we’re moving away from it, but we are also still recognizing that to me, there is no better way for us to be effective as a group, ways to mentor, ways to learn from the experiences that we have, whether it’s a project or just being with somebody. The things that we run into just casually, we’re walking to the restroom, or from the parking lot, doesn’t really matter, those are the things that are missing. And I think that as we’ve gotten further down this path, where I’m really seeing that is with our newer hires, and people that have not been in our industry for any real length of time.
So the last couple of years, they don’t really know how to learn from other people. We haven’t figured out a way to replace that. Not that we won’t, but for now, I still feel like we need 20 to at least 40% of our people’s just in-person time in order to really-
Steve Moskowitz:
Oh, exactly. Just like what I’m doing in my office. Some people are coming in part time. Because I remember, and you talk about traveling, at one point in our practice, I was taking a hundred airplane flights a year.
Joel Patterson:
Oh, yeah. Platinum club pro right here, too. It’s nice when you’ve got it, but you don’t want to earn it.
Chip Franklin:
Well, I’ve been doing standup comedy since 1980 and I’m telling you, you can’t do that on a Zoom. Right?
Joel Patterson:
There you go.
Chip Franklin:
Yeah. But you’re right. I mean, there’s something… We’re going to find a balance here, I think, with that-
Steve Moskowitz:
Well, you know what the balance is, Chip? When you know somebody personally. It’s like right next week, Chip and I are getting together live and in person. So I think the balance is where you spend some time live in person. I know exactly what you mean, the feel from the person.
Chip Franklin:
Yeah.
Steve Moskowitz:
But because you don’t have to do it every time, once you’ve had that feel, you can carry that on and you still maintain it, seeing each other part time, but far more efficiently when you’re doing something. Say, for example, if I was in Texas or you were here in California, even though we got together, we wouldn’t get together every time. But we knew each other as a deeper level. That’s why the part-time was working out perfectly.
Joel Patterson:
Absolutely.
Chip Franklin:
Last thing here, Joel, and we really appreciate your time. I read a survey that, from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, have found that 60% of businesses rarely or never allow workers to telecommute. That was 2018. I got to think that number’s going to change significantly, and we’ll keep an eye on that as we move forward. And we’d love to have you back and talk about this again. You don’t have to fly in either.
Joel Patterson:
Yeah, I hear you. I’m happy to do more-
Steve Moskowitz:
But you’re welcome to.
Chip Franklin:
Yeah. Come in the city-
Joel Patterson:
Based on what you just said, Chip, the last one that I read maybe a week ago, was that about 35% of those people from 2018 that were full-time in the office, are back in the office full time. Now, my company where I just said, we only mandate our monthly all-hands meeting. But there’s people in our office every day.
Chip Franklin:
Yeah.
Joel Patterson:
So you’ve got to create other reasons to be there, create some FOMO, create some team meetings, all that stuff will make a difference. And it’ll give you a reason to develop those relationships that really, at the end of the day, creates the culture that binds these people together. And then you think about the labor market and everything else that we’re in right now, that’s what you need in order to be successful.
Chip Franklin:
I like your approach, man. Your company’s lucky to have you there, Joel. Thank you so much.
Joel Patterson:
Thanks, Chip. Appreciate it. You guys take care.
Chip Franklin:
All right.
Joel Patterson:
Thank you.
Chip Franklin:
All right. That is another edition of the Practical Tax Show with tax attorney, Steve Moskowitz. That is interesting stuff, Steve. It’s fun. I can’t wait to get together next week and talk more in person, okay?
Steve Moskowitz:
I’m looking forward to it. Live and in person.
Chip Franklin:
All right. Again, tax attorney, Steve Moskowitz. I’m Chip Franklin. This is Practical Tax.
Outro:
Thanks for joining us on the Practical Tax podcast with tax attorney Steve Moskowitz. To hear more and view more podcasts, go to moskowitzllp.com/practicaltax.